Oversized davidlandin Model

[daniel_reetz]

Just a quick note for history's sake, YASW originated here on the forums! It's great software by our member Tibob!. Thanks, Tibob.

[davidlandin]

Thanks Daniel for that info - and a VERY big thank you to Tibob. As I have said before, this is a really excellent program. I love it.

I have written an illustrated YASW manual which may replicate something that already exists, but I hope it will be useful to people who want to use the software.

https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B7STuk ... sp=sharing

David Landin

[daniel_reetz]

Great manual! Thank you for your contributions here!

[GPHS2]

Dave, thanks for the additional info. We should be getting our scanner the end of this week or early next week. It has been sent out to be powder coated black so it is less reflective. Once we get it we will have a better idea of how and where to mount the cameras. I will be getting 2 Canon A2200s delivered today or tomorrow and also have ordered 2 power supplies for them which won't be here for another couple of weeks. If need be I can test the cameras on battery power until we get them. I am also getting 2 bike mounts similar to your B example in the photo you posted but a little different on the top. The reason I am trying those first is because it seems that it is a tight mount but the rotating ball type adjustment piece should make it easier to position the camera correctly. Now, having said that, we may have to add another bar that actually will cross over the connectors that hold the platen to the bar. On our scanner they are positioned right about where I think the camera most likely should go. It should be fairly easy to add a second bar to hold the cameras and that will give us the ability to slide the camera back and forth if need be to center it on the book to be scanned. Like you, I thought about going with a long threaded rod that would go into the bottom of the camera but I hope the free motion of the ball type camera mount will give us the best method to position the camera correctly. We will see how that goes and if is any movement after it is in use a while. Here is the item number for the 2 bike mounts I ordered from Ebay. Item no. 350966393129 It was only $4.68 each and came from California not China so it doesn't take weeks to get them even though they are probably made in China.....

Here is a picture of the bike mount in case that auction is closed in the future.

This is our bike mount for the two cameras.

I was thinking the threaded rod would pretty much hold the camera at the correct angle to the platen. However, now I am not certain so we have to wait until we get the scanner to actually see if the bike mounts do the job..

We are going to try to trigger the cameras using USB cables hooked into the correct power adapters. The adapters will be plugged into a surge protector type outlet and probably triggered by a foot switch. The camera power adapters will be plugged into another surge protector type outlet to provide power to the cameras. The light or lights will also go in the same strip as the cameras.

We haven't really gotten into anything yet on lighting. I saw your setup and was wondering if one of those utility type lights with the big silver ring around the back of them would work. It might need a thin piece of paper or cloth in front of it to cut down on glare while still letting the light through. That would give it a more muted light that might not cause as much reflection. Lighting is something we have yet to get into really.

When we start scanning, we will most likely just scan until we fill the sd cards and then remove them and copy the files off them and then replace the cards and continue scanning. I know there is a way to automatically download the files while you scan but I am not sure if the same people will always be scanning or if they will always have access to a laptop or computer. So to start we will copy the files manually but will consider using the programs available to eventually do it automatically.

Since the first 140 books or so that we are going to scan are old legal type ledgers where everything is hand written, we will not have to worry about OCR software or converting them other ways. This is something that I think has to be done by people actually reading them and transcribing the info and then someone else verifying it is correct. However, once we get to scanning the 65 years of newspapers and other documents we can then try to use OCR or other software to convert them. I have seen this program "Pdf & DjVu Bookmarker" but don't really know much about it yet as I won't need it for a while yet so haven't investigated it really.

Cost so far.
Scanner itself is free as the labor and materials are being donated. Yes, that is a big savings and we appreciate it greatly.

2 Canon A2200 cameras. 31.77 each 63.54
2 power adapters 19.29 each 38.48
2 bike mounts 4.68 each 9.36
2 USB Plugs 2.75 each 5.50
1 foot switch 33.38 each 33.38 It was actually 23.99 plus S&H and taxes.

Total so far 150.26 US funds

Everything was found on Ebay except the foot switch which was purchased from Amazon.com I could not believe the cost of the foot switch with S&H and taxes but that will free up both hands to work the scanner and turn pages. I went with a more expensive foot switch because we will not have to cut or splice the power cords. As a historical society and not an individual we did not want to have someone get shocked or seriously hurt because of a bare wire, etc. The couple of extra dollars for this switch is well worth the cost to reduce our liability exposure.

The 2.75 for each USB plug eliminates the need to splice any wires there also and reduces hazards for users. These are just your everyday USB plugs you usually get with your cell phone, etc. Again, 5.50 was a cheap price for the added safety and they will provide the correct amount of voltage to the cameras to trigger them.

This is where we are at right now and are just waiting to get the scanner to proceed.

Again, thanks to all for any comments or suggestions and we will update you as we go.

Mike and Ron

[GPHS2]

Daniel, thank you for mentioning that Tibob created YASW, it is good to know who does these things and to be able to give them thanks and credit where justly deserved.

David, thanks for the detailed instructions on how to use YASW. I haven't tried it yet but know eventually I will get to it so both of your work is much appreciated.

This is what makes this such a great forum.

Mike and Ron

[davidlandin]

Hi Mike and Ron

Thanks for your long and detailed progress report - very interesting. While I was thinking about YASW, I decided to make a short YouTube video about it, as that seems a bit easier to use than a written description. Here is a link to it

http://youtu.be/__a9urAtQD4

David

[davidlandin]

I've just written a long reply and it seems to have evaporated. Frustrating eh! So here goes again.

1. The bike camera holder I think the model you have got is much better than mine. The one with a ball and socket mount that I bought (B in my photo) is held simply with a screw that screws up against the ball. It always seems floppy and ready to move at any moment. Yours has a much better tightening nut that should cinch up tight and stop the mount moving. The advantage of a ball and socket fitting is that you do have a very wide range of movement in all directions. So that should be good.

I do think that you are going to find that you need an extender (as I have found necessary in my camera support bars (the ones with the measuring tape stuck on)). You will have to position the camera over the center point of the page, and since you are going to be scanning large ledgers and newspapers, that is going to mean the camera has to be extended quite a distance out over the page. You need to do this to avoid trapezoid images - the dreaded keystone effect. I tried the threaded rod approach to extend the camera more centrally above the pages, and gave up. This was partly because it is hard to find 1/4 inch threaded rod and connecting nuts to join the rod to the original 1/4 inch threaded camera socket. Sadly, apart from camera use, 1/4 inch is not standard these days, at least in the UK. Also I think that a long threaded metal rod might well be susceptible to vibration as you move the platen up and down. So you may end up with a camera support bar on either side like mine. This can be "craned" over the paper.

2. The shutter firing method I am not sure I understand how you are planning to fire the shutters. It sounds like you are going to use the foot switch to power on and off the power supply units for the cameras. But will powering on and off fire the shutter??? Also if you are switching power on and off all the time will you lose your focussing and exposure settings on the camera?

3. Lighting I've looked at buying a powerful LED light. There seem to be two types - one where you get an array of about 80 mini LEDs, and the other kind is like an outside floodlight, and seems to use a single very bright LED (I've only seen pictures) . I tried the LED array method using an array flashlight I had but the light was dim. I think an LED flood-light might do, but my daylight fluorescent twisted up tube is very good and give a bright, white light.

Looking forward to hearing from you again

David

[GPHS2]

Hi Dave, yes my thoughts were the same on the bike mounts we decided to try. I actually have both of them and they look great so I can't wait until Friday or so to get the scanner to see how they work when clamped on the unit.

I agree also on the extender bar. I think we will still need one on each side for the reasons you mentioned. We are thinking that we may be able to position certain size books or ledgers so the camera lines up in the center of the book without needing extender bars. But if we find we can't do the bigger items without the extender bars we should be able to easily add those.

I also agree with your thoughts on using a longer 1/4 inch threaded rod. Plus, I think if we do add the extender bars it will be very easy to adjust or slide the camera up or down to center the camera on the book. We will know for sure once we actually get to try a few scans. I am already thinking about the addition of the bars so I will have an idea of how to go about adding them as quickly as possible if we do actually need them.

Sorry I didn't make the triggering system easier to follow. At this point I think we will use 2 USB cables plugged into 2 of these USB plugs.

USB Plug used to trigger each camera

USB Plug.JPG (10.1 KiB) Viewed 8996 times

I purchased them on Ebay item number 330942232586 for 2.75 each delivered. You plug the USB cable that comes with the Canon A2200 camera into the end of each plug and the other end into the camera USB port. The plugs are both plugged into one power strip that controls only those two plugs. That power strip is plugged into a foot switch. So when the foot switch is pressed it will send the proper electrical charge to each camera to trigger each to take a photo. The camera power adapters will both be plugged into a different power strip that will have constant power so they don't turn on and off and refocus, etc. CHDK code will recognize the power sent to the USB port on the camera and will trigger the camera to take the photo.

At this point, I don't know if we will go any further with the CHDK software to download the photos to the computer and delete them off the camera or run them through post processing, etc. That we will decide once we are up and running successfully.

As for lighting....we really haven't given that a lot of thought yet. I think it will be trial and error until we get it right or unless someone here has some great type of light source that they know works pretty well for them. I like your meatloaf pan type light as it seems to have worked for you so far. I have a clamp on light similar to that but it has a round silver reflector just behind the bulb to reflect the light toward the front. It is similar to your light but round instead of rectangular. I am going to try that first and if need be I will put a piece of white paper or white see-through cloth over the front of the silver ring where the bulb is to mute the light somewhat but still allow it to penetrate the cover. Not sure how it will work but some photographers use that principal when the need arises and it works well for them. Of course they are shooting a different scene but it is worth a try as it is the easiest and cheapest method I can think of. I will be curious to see what you try next and how it works. I saw something called a grill led light on http://www.lowes.com for about 15.00 and I think it had 8 or 10 led lights and it was a clamp on type. However I believe it only comes as a battery operated version and I would want an actual powered light.

Here are some pictures of the utility or work light I will try first.

Utility light

This is the front view, it measures about 8 inches across. You can see the silver reflector ring behind the bulb.

Side View

This is just a side view. I am holding the reflector ring and that weird looking wire on the left side is actually the clamp where you can clamp it onto anything you want that will position it where the light is needed.

clamp open

This just shows the clamp in the open position so you can clamp it wherever you need it.

wing nut to tighten light

This just shows the wing nut that you can use to tighten the swivel that holds the light at a certain angle. So besides being able to position the light at different angles using the clamp, you also can then further position the light at the swivel joint and then tighten it so it is held in place.

This light also has about a 10 foot power cord which we could plug into the same power strip as the cameras so it is always on when the cameras are on.

This light cost under $10.00 at Walmart or Kmart.

Dave, I don't mean to bore you with the details of the light shown above but I am not certain if they sell anything like this in your country. In fact, I am not certain what country you are even in so please excuse my rambling if you are familiar with this type. Plus, people from all over the world may be reading this so they will have a better idea of exactly what I am talking about also.

I am also thinking that they sell short florescent type light strips that you can use over a sink or work space, etc. They probably come in different sizes so we could buy two that are about the same size as each side of our book cradle and possibly mount them at the same angle as our book cradle but slightly higher. That might eliminate reflections. Again, just a thought as it would provide even light across the entire surface of the both pages. Maybe someone else has already tried something like that and can give us their results.

Another thought I had is that we could try reflected light. Much like when a photographer uses one of those silver or other colored reflectors to bounce natural or other light onto a subject. By creating a bright enough environment we might not need direct light on the pages. Again, just a thought to throw out there and see if anyone has tried it.

Thanks for the feedback and I hope this clears things up a little more.

Mike

[davidlandin]

Here's a link to an ebay LED floodlight.

The 2000 lumens daylight version gives the same light output as my fluorescent - 2000 lumens

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/10W-20W-30W-5 ... 3a870225d4

In case the link doesn't work here's the ebay number 251373168084

I think your idea of reflecting the light (like on a photographers white umbrella) or using a white cover the the lamp sounds good. You need to watch out for possibility of fire if the lamp gets hot!

Did you see my more recent youtube video ? http://youtu.be/ne-h7FTMZBk



David

[daniel_reetz]

Actually, it's not the best idea to reflect the light over a large diffuser. Here's why. Imagine an extreme case - you were pointing a floodlight up at the ceiling. In this case, the ENTIRE CEILING would appear to the cameras as glare from above. The bigger the light source, the bigger the glare image reflects off the platen.

To minimize glare, keep the light source as physically small as possible. The LED floods you linked are good for this because the actual surface that emits light is maybe a CM or two on a side.